The Nokia N86 wins the race to v20 firmware

Good to see someone from Nokia on the forum answering queries. It would be good if ppl responsible for other phones step up to take some criticism and answer queries as well...

I can't recall the Euro zone for Finland but my unlocked (aren't they all here?) phone upgraded without a hitch via FOTA.

DamianDinning wrote:Should be available next week if all goes well.

Thanks for this response regarding the NAM update. Due to our smaller user-base, it definitely feels like we NAM users get left out in the cold sometimes with regards to updates.

And I couldn't agree more with your comments regarding smile/blink detection; it does me well to know Nokia (your team) is more concerned with image quality than small elements that add little to the overall photography experience.

Thanks for taking the time to answer people's questions and provide more insight regarding one of the best Nseries to date-

@DamianDinning,

1. When I take image with my phone, image is saved under "All" folder, and it's not shown in "Captured" or "Months". As a result of that, those 2 folders are always empty. It was like this from the day one I got my phone, and I thought this was an issue with v11 (major issue). However, with some of you folks not having such problem it must be me... I thought this would be corrected in v20, but now I'm sure it definitely me, just don't know how to resolve this issue

2. That nice red/pink Music icon from main menu is gone, and now "new folder" icon is shown instead. It's the same icon when you make some new folder (yellow icon with some paper sticking out). Funny thing is I can't "move to folder" Music icon as this option is missing now (only for Music icon).

Cheers,
Miki

miki69 wrote:@DamianDinning,

1. When I take image with my phone, image is saved under "All" folder, and it's not shown in "Captured" or "Months". It was like this from the day one I got my phone, and I thought this was an issue with v11 (major issue). However, with some of you folks not having such problem it must be me... I thought this would be corrected in v20, but now I'm sure it definitely me, just don't know how to resolve this issue

2. That nice red/pink Music icon from main menu is gone, and now "new folder" icon is shown instead. It's the same icon when you make some new folder (yellow icon with some paper sticking out). Funny thing is I can't "move to folder" Music icon as this option is missing now (only for Music icon).

Cheers,
Miki

I've seen neither of these issues. I would suggest doing a factory reset, I appreciate that is not very convenient but it's the only thing I can suggest. Check if both of these issues go away before reloading your settings from your back-up if that's what you chose to do so we can eliminate if needed any issues with compatibility of setings etc.

newtype wrote:Thanks for this response regarding the NAM update. Due to our smaller user-base, it definitely feels like we NAM users get left out in the cold sometimes with regards to updates.

@DamianDinning,

thank you for your support, I'm backing up my phone as we speak, after reset I'll inspect if problems are gone.

EDIT: I did it, everything is back to normal, Music folder got back that nice pink icon, images are shown in Captured and Months now 😊. However I seem to lost Nokia Games folder, but I don't care about that.
Choosing "Factory reset" didn't solve the problem, so I did *#7370# reset and it worked. Now everything is in order.

Thanks again.

Cheers,
Miki

There is a new bug with the "Theme-Effects".
If they are "On" the switch of the Display between Horizontal and Vertical-Mode is slow and looks wired.
And if you turn the �Theme-Effects� �Off� and then �On� again, the whole menu get�s slow and you have to restart the mobile.

Unregistered wrote:There is a new bug with the "Theme-Effects".
If they are "On" the switch of the Display between Horizontal and Vertical-Mode is slow and looks wired.
And if you turn the �Theme-Effects� �Off� and then �On� again, the whole menu get�s slow and you have to restart the mobile.

😞 noted

miki69 wrote:@DamianDinning,

thank you for your support, I'm backing up my phone as we speak, after reset I'll inspect if problems are gone.

EDIT: I did it, everything is back to normal, Music folder got back that nice pink icon, images are shown in Captured and Months now 😊. However I seem to lost Nokia Games folder, but I don't care about that.
Choosing "Factory reset" didn't solve the problem, so I did *#7370# reset and it worked. Now everything is in order.

Thanks again.

Cheers,
Miki

Good to hear. yes full reset is what I had in mind, should have made that clearer.

atb

DOLwm wrote:Mines now V20.115

Custom version 20.115.54.1, using RM-484.

Got the update trying yesterday so ... Having fun with the face detection.
Awesome.

Yes, but what Product Code is that for? RM-484 is the device identifier, which relates to more than one product code.

The product code is physically printed inside the phone, underneath the battery, and is a numeric code that looks like:

05xxxxx

This is not like an IMEI number, in that it is not unique to your phone, so no security issue posting it here, but rather shared across your entire model type - for example, UK2, or Spain 1 Model, etc etc.

So please let us know, so we know which variants are getting this update, and also - and this applies to anyone posting to say they have managed to update, mention whether it was Over The Air, or via PC Suite, as I am thinking it might just be a PC Suite not yet seeing it, kind of issue...

Possibly confirming, that this is a FOTA v F via PC Suite issue.

As connecting to PC Suite, and asking it to check for an update, it tells me there is no update, but that I can re-install my existing v11 firmware.

However, going into the Application Menu on my phone itself, and then selcecting Software Update (I keep forgetting this, as for some reason the "Device Manager" or *#0000# code will show me the info, but then the Carrier's Update Settings are somehow wrong, and won't let me update over the air), instead tells me there is a:

"Phone Software - Important Update. 7655 KB" (View details shows: v20.115)

So it looks like FOTA sees the has the new update, but NOT PC Suite based updates.

Damian, this could well be by design, to spread load etc in stages.

But if not, if it's an oversight, could you pass it along, as for some reason, despite 'seeming' to download the update over the air on my phone, after a while of saying "Processing", the screen just drops back to the list of available updates, with the "Phone Software" update listed again.

So I seem to be unable to update Over The Air, even though it tells me v20 is there for me, and I can't update via PC Suite, as that works but doesn't even see the update.

Thanks Damian.

(EDIT: but in the past, I have managed to find Nokia Conversation listed here in Software Updates, and update that over the air, so could it be a Server issue? Is it carrier based, or does my phone talk direct to Nokia for Firmware Updates done through the SW Update tool..?)

regarding that "missing" Nokia Games folder, I wnet to Ngage site, downloaded it again, and now EVERYTHING is in order

Very happy now. I can also confirm "theme effects issue". Also I have notices, when changing themes, ovi tab in Contacts sometimes is shown only with white square (without name "ovi"😉. Phone restart does resolve this.

Cheers,
Miki

miki69 wrote:regarding that "missing" Nokia Games folder, I wnet to Ngage site, downloaded it again, and now EVERYTHING is in order

Very happy now. I can also confirm "theme effects issue". Also I have notices, when changing themes, ovi tab in Contacts sometimes is shown only with white square (without name "ovi"😉. Phone restart does resolve this.

Cheers,
Miki

Miki, you've not said what your product code is though, and whether this was an OTA update, or through PC Suite...

And where do I even find this Theme Transition Effects option please?

it's not available in UAE!!! when?! when!? when!!!??? 😡😮

shadamehr wrote:Miki, you've not said what your product code is though, and whether this was an OTA update, or through PC Suite...

And where do I even find this Theme Transition Effects option please?

There are around 50 packages already available via FOTA. NSU packages will be available next week for these. NAM next week all being well too.

Other packages will take longer but we're working on it, I promise.

I have a question, I don't know if this is the right thread for it, but I'll try.

My Phonememory is almost full, I have about 15 MB free space, and the problem is that I have no idea what's taking up the space! I've checked both the phones file manager, and on a computer, but it both says that the folders are empty.

Any idea what I should do?

DamianDinning wrote:There are around 50 packages already available via FOTA. NSU packages will be available next week for these. NAM next week all being well too.

Other packages will take longer but we're working on it, I promise.

I see the premise behind certain codes only at first, either to spread load, or gauge for errors/adverse issues first.

But I will never share the premise of OTA and NSU not getting the FW at the same time, for the same Product Code.

Especially as:

(a) I can't get FOTA to work on mine, even though it teases me telling me there is a new update,
(b) I'm probably the most vociferous person clambering for this new FW for Bug Fixes.

*lol*

Just to repeat the *lol* as it might not be clear enough.

How frustrating though.

I find it hard to believe that Nokia still has this "problem", "issue", whatever when it comes to rolling out software. Why do everything piecemeal? It appears that Nokia is ALWAYS doing a bit of this, a bit of that, a tweak here, a tweak there. I think, and this is my opinion, that if the firmware is not ready to release globally, then wait until everyone can get it. This piecemeal strategy is like a constant tease to most. "Hey, I got mine upgraded today. Did you?" "No, it is not released for my phone yet". This is the constant cry of overly frustrated Nokia users. I was lucky as I got it for my phone right away and to be honest, I no longer rely on Nokia as my main phone (simply not up to the task), but there are plenty users in the US and other parts of the world that have to wait, and wait, and wait until the mana comes down from on high and they are blessed with an upgrade. I feel that this is not fair to loyal Nokia customers that seemed to be getting crapped on with almost each successive phone.

Does the N86 have multi-face detection? If so, how many faces can it simultaneously detect?
Samsung has multi-face detection for up to 3 faces (I've just tested it on my i8910). The same holds for LG (I know because they advertised the bejeezus out of this feature in the press). I don't know about the SE Satio.

shadamehr wrote:Miki, you've not said what your product code is though, and whether this was an OTA update, or through PC Suite...

And where do I even find this Theme Transition Effects option please?

I did update via FOTA, as for theme effects go to Personalization-Themes-General and there you'll get the list of all themes. Click Options and there you have it!

Cheers,
Miki

i try to update my N86 3 hrs ago, it shows that i can update to 20.1.15 version, but when i try to update now. the device says there are no updates available.

Is the nokia server is down?

That happen to me also, I guess you should try few times in order to make it work.

Cheers,
Miki

rvirga wrote:Does the N86 have multi-face detection? If so, how many faces can it simultaneously detect?

Yes it can *detect* up to 10 faces. However, it will only use one for critical focus setting as the lens focus position can only be set to one position. Depth of field will then govern whether other faces will also *look* in focus.

atb

As for face detection: I tried to take a shot with 2 faces in the image, so first there is yellow square "chasing" 1st face, but then there is also another white square , that seems to be focused on 2nd face (but not chasing it). It's really difficult to get both squares, as white one comes and go, but I was just fooling around to see "what if.."

Cheers,
Miki

sapporobaby wrote:I find it hard to believe that Nokia still has this "problem", "issue", whatever when it comes to rolling out software. Why do everything piecemeal? It appears that Nokia is ALWAYS doing a bit of this, a bit of that, a tweak here, a tweak there. I think, and this is my opinion, that if the firmware is not ready to release globally, then wait until everyone can get it. This piecemeal strategy is like a constant tease to most. "Hey, I got mine upgraded today. Did you?" "No, it is not released for my phone yet". This is the constant cry of overly frustrated Nokia users. I was lucky as I got it for my phone right away and to be honest, I no longer rely on Nokia as my main phone (simply not up to the task), but there are plenty users in the US and other parts of the world that have to wait, and wait, and wait until the mana comes down from on high and they are blessed with an upgrade. I feel that this is not fair to loyal Nokia customers that seemed to be getting crapped on with almost each successive phone.

Hello.

Please don't take this reply as arrogant or not understanding your POV, I completely get it. But I would like to try and explain why.

Essentially this is a trade-off with the scale Nokia has and trying to get the updates out as quickly as possible rather than building them up to release all at once which means delaying for the majority.

Nokia ships on average around 900 phones every minute, that's almost 1.3m every day*! To be able to do that means you have to serve more countries, more customers (retailers and operators) and more consumers than anyone else. A fact not a bragging right. For each device available globally results in literally hundreds of different SW packages. Think about the logistics involved in shipping hundreds of different products [versions] (which essentially that is) for most products Nokia sells. When it comes to new SW we're effectively testing a new product. Literally, thousands of test cases have to be repeated for each of those hundreds of variants and then for multiple products. Does that help to imagine the logistics involved in that vs other companies you maybe thinking about?

I hope that helps in some way to explain why it takes time.

Please note all these numbers are rough and averaged over time and multiple products for illustrative purposes only.

* I used 2008 financial year as a reference.

DamianDinning wrote:Hello.

Please don't take this reply as arrogant or not understanding your POV, I completely get it. But I would like to try and explain why.

Essentially this is a trade-off with the scale Nokia has and trying to get the updates out as quickly as possible rather than building them up to release all at once which means delaying for the majority.

Nokia ships on average around 900 phones every minute, that's almost 1.3m every day*! To be able to do that means you have to serve more countries, more customers (retailers and operators) and more consumers than anyone else. A fact not a bragging right. For each device available globally results in literally hundreds of different SW packages. Think about the logistics involved in shipping hundreds of different products [versions] (which essentially that is) for most products Nokia sells. When it comes to new SW we're effectively testing a new product. Literally, thousands of test cases have to be repeated for each of those hundreds of variants and then for multiple products. Does that help to imagine the logistics involved in that vs other companies you maybe thinking about?

I hope that helps in some way to explain why it takes time.

Please note all these numbers are rough and averaged over time and multiple products for illustrative purposes only.

* I used 2008 financial year as a reference.

Moro, moro Damian,

You are my new hero. I can deal with an explanation. This is something Nokia has been lacking for quite a while. I think people can accept anything other than feeling that they are being ignored.

Appreciate your answers and participation in the forum.

DamianDinning

I had update my n86 through FOTA

For imaging there is an improvement 😃
- More detail & sharpness I can saw from picture I take at outdoor today
- No more greenish white balance I found when flash on
- The face detection can detect more than 6 faces

But there still got incorrect white balance for indoor shot (blueish)🙄
It is quite hard for me to take a photo using shutter speed 1/8 exposure time 1/10.. always get blurred photo when the condition is totally dark & flash on 😃

One question to ask : Is there any different update through FOTA & NSU?

Thanks DamianDinning

shadamehr wrote:And as a side issue, I'd be interested to clarify a point...

As a certain other forum, users there are claiming there is no update for the Models that are normally the first to work, with no success reported for the EURO 1, EURO 2, and EURO 3 handsets, nor the UK 1, UK 2, and UK 3.

And as these are normally the very first to be available (Euro codes anyhow) if what they say is right, this is curious.

Coupled with Damian saying it's available from NEXT week, (EDIT - I think that just meant for the NAM version) if I read it right, it makes me wonder exactly WHAT sort of phone the Editor has, to have been able to update, if it is true the normal suspects this time are not yet working.

Maybe that, or perhaps it's another one of those issues where Nokia have flicked the switch for FOTA updates, but forgot to do so for the PC Suite based Updates.

I can't say myself if mine works, and what code it is thus for, as mine's still doing the requisite full backup first (UDP regardless).

It was me who first posted on the N86 Face Detection thread regarding the new N86 v20 firmware update OTA.

My product code is Euro 1 and it was available FOTA. Haven't tried NSU yet so can't comment if it's available on there yet.

I really should register! Lol.

@ Miki...

All this time, and I never realised THAT'S where the setting was hiding.

Shoot me - and to think - to call myself a Nokia Veteran *lol* - so thanks mate.

@ Unregistered...

It's ok, it's now been (frustratingly) confirmed that v20 FW is ONLY out for OTA updates for now.

NSU Updates are not until next week.

This bit drives me mad, as for many of us, the phone makes it clear the new update exists, but due to Carriers, or whatever other reason, I cannot actually do FOTA updates on my phone.

And the Nokia site is no help whatsoever as the Nokia Settings Page now no longer sends the requisite settings to your phone as it used to - it just points you back to your Carrier, for anything the Settings Wizard app doesn't set up right the first time (such as FOTA Servers).

Poor show.

I understand Damian's point about it not being available for all codes at once.

In fact, to even further support THIS aspect of things, may I say Damian failed to mention an even more valid point, that for MANY Product Codes, it is not even Nokia that holds things up, but the CARRIER, as they insist on a CUSTOM FW, which adds to the time delay etc. to actually create this specialised version.

But if it is out for a certain Product Code for FOTA updating, I do not see a valid reason why it is not available for NSU updating at the same time.

Indeed, this is unusual, in that in the past and up until now, if they were not available via BOTH methods at the same time (for a certain product code for which there is of course a newer FW), then NSU always, understandably, got it FIRST, and THEN FOTA would follow.

I find it foolish that FOTA is now getting it first, and NSU not until a week later, even for those Product Codes for which there IS a newer FW available.

I don't see the logic, or good sense in that whatsoever.