The Nokia N86 wins the race to v20 firmware

miki69 wrote:This particular image, made with proto version ahead of MWC 2009 has been haunting many of us from the day it was published. I know a lot of people who made some great shots daytime/night but nothing comes even close to this shot (assuming the image hasn't been digitally altered):
http://mobilenet.cz/aktuality/img/c512/03012009173.jpg

So rumors start, that this was done with some high quality proto lens which never got into production. Even though I refuse to believe that, I wonder how come we can't make such great photos. I also wonder if they have used some stand to avoid shakes?

Another issue with N86: how can I connect N86 with my laptop via BT? After pairing it asks me for some files to install which I don't seem to have (Found new hardware screen). I have downloaded from Nokia site N86 BT.inf file, but it doesn't work (does not support this method of installation error message). Did anyone managed to connect N86 with computer via BT, and how? I never had any issues connecting my 6500s.

Cheers,
Miki

The shot you reference was taken with a proto camera module as well as extremely early sw and tuning settings. The latest tuning settings which is the result of 7 months work and must be in the region of 20,000 or so images and videos is far better than what we had back then. The camera module used at that stage also had various issues which have all been resolved with what went into production.

In terms of steadying the device, I think any photographer regardless of the equipment when shooting in such low light should carefully squeeze the capture key and where possible support the device by whatever means are available. I often for example will use a nearby post or wall to rest the device or lean against myself to reduce the chance of camera movement. I would do this with any camera that I use, so this image is attainable and I would hope with all the development work since then to an even higher standard technically speaking.

donpipino wrote:

And yes, I've seen that some people haven't had the chance to update yet, which is weird, it should be released at the same time for everyone imo.

There are already 50 variants available which cover large geographical chunks. NAM should be available next week. A few others will also follow shortly but not all in one go, that will simply take longer. Would you really prefer it if we would delay it for all to achieve this?

hi sapporobaby.

re your BT issue. If you're still needing to resolve this issue you may want to try uninstalling both PC suite and Ovi suite and then reinstalling just one of them.

DamianDinning wrote:hi sapporobaby.

re your BT issue. If you're still needing to resolve this issue you may want to try uninstalling both PC suite and Ovi suite and then reinstalling just one of them.

Hi Damian.

Do you know if the standard EURO and UK codes are those that will be available to NSU from next week?

Cheers mate.

As an aside, can I say if you are to stagger things (between FOTA and NSU I mean, not between actual FW variants), then could I request that in future Nokia go back to their previous policy, and make NSU first, with FOTA following, and not the other way round, as the v20 FW has done.

Thanks again mate.

Hey steve or rafe i got my N86 four day's ago. and when i charge it the battery indicator light never turn's off when the battery is fully charged until i unplug it then it turn's off. And sometime's the bar's where it show's it charging just keep on going until i unplug it is that something that can be fixed with an firmware update or is it something wrong with my N86.

Unregistered wrote:Hey steve or rafe i got my N86 four day's ago. and when i charge it the battery indicator light never turn's off when the battery is fully charged until i unplug it then it turn's off. And sometime's the bar's where it show's it charging just keep on going until i unplug it is that something that can be fixed with an firmware update or is it something wrong with my N86.

This should have been resolved in the latest fw 20.115. If you haven't been able to download it yet (device says no updates available) please be patient, we are bringing the updates to more variants as quickly as we can. For now try restarting the device, it quite often resets this aspect.

shadamehr wrote:Hi Damian.

Do you know if the standard EURO and UK codes are those that will be available to NSU from next week?

Cheers mate.

As an aside, can I say if you are to stagger things (between FOTA and NSU I mean, not between actual FW variants), then could I request that in future Nokia go back to their previous policy, and make NSU first, with FOTA following, and not the other way round, as the v20 FW has done.

Thanks again mate.

1. Euro codes will be available via NSU this week all being well. UK working on it.

2. Noted.

atb

DamianDinning wrote:This should have been resolved in the latest fw 20.115. If you haven't been able to download it yet (device says no updates available) please be patient, we are bringing the updates to more variants as quickly as we can. For now try restarting the device, it quite often resets this aspect.

When I read this I checked my phone and the light wasn't on, but the phone was still charging. I guess it's because I plugged the cable in while phone was off, and then turned it on when it charged a little. It's a bug, isn't it? When I plugged it out and in again, the light lit up. Now it's charged and it's not glowing any more.
edit: checked it again, the light stays dark when you try to charge the phone that's turned off.
Oh, and if you use task manager other than the default one, when you open the contacts for the first time there are 2 "contacts" processes (probably because of the new chat), it would be great if there was only one process shown.
Also, when turning the phone off, nokia logo on the white background is on the screen for a momment, but then it is replaced by the applications that are shutting down (handy taskman, log, sometimes contacts...)
P.S. Those other bugs (satellite status, real player, "already in use" message when trying to delete a picture) will be fixed in the next version, right? 😊 And I hope that version will bring back the music folder icon, full format is really annoying...

@DaminDinning
Thank you for your assistance and reply.

More v20 regressions:

When I try to delete image immediately after it's taken (as soon as side bar pop up), I get message "already in use". Funny thing is "processing" is finished, so I don't understand what is in use?

Also, I have a feeling that camera startup is a bit slower with v20.

Web browser very often hangs, or it takes ages to load page, something I don't recall in v11. I believe something is messed up. Opera Mini beta5 is working totally ok

When using non default themes, after restart my "ovi tab" in Contacts is messed up, there is no name "ovi" just some white square. Reverting to some of default themes, followed with restart does resolve the issue. This doesn't happen always, so I can't reproduce problem following some "steps", however playing with autorotate, camera and Web seems to cause this glitch. Or maybe this is related to specif theme? I'm using FISSURE theme, however I don't have such issue with 6720 using exact theme.

In Messages if I choose to save messages in E drive (mass memory), very often they are reverted to C drive (phone memory) followed with a message "E drive not available" or something. This was also in v11, so obviously not corrected yet.

When I click Music player or Web, for a split second both signal and battery indicators are gone. Maybe it's just refresh rate...

In Real Player, I can't fast forward/rewind clips using Dpad (like in v11), only with multimedia buttons.Volume control works with Dpad though.

Another thing missing in N86 comparing to 6720:
in photos (when viewing them) there is no option "view in landscape/portrail", so if you disable autorotate, the only way to see images "full screen" is via slideshow.

Also comparing to 6720, some menu folders are missing like:
- Internet folder (where everything related to internet is inside). In N86 this is scattered all over places.
- Installation folder (Inside Applications), so all you installations are in one place. Of course you can make this folder in N86 by yourself but that's not the point plus you always get that ugly "default folder" icon instead of very nice Installation icon folder in 6720
- Games folder (not Ngage games folder but other Games folder as in 6720)

One thing I don't understand is why Nokia didn't put 600Mhz in N86 (top imaging solution) as they did with 6720? Beyond logic to me!

Wallpaper doesn't go fullscreen (unlike in 6720)

Autorotation quite slow and messy (with or without theme effects), painfully slow "redraw". Seems that autorotation is broken in v20. 6720 autorotation is a breeze.

re BT connection: I still can't connect laptop and N86. Tried to uninstall/reinstall PC Suite, OVI Suite Beta and it's always asking me for location of some files :con? I guess I'll have to wait for new version of PC Suite/Ovi

Cheers,
Miki

miki69 wrote:
Another thing missing in N86 comparing to 6720:
in photos (when viewing them) there is no option "view in landscape/portrail", so if you disable autorotate, the only way to see images "full screen" is via slideshow.

When autorotate is disabled, the way to rotate the screen is to open the slide one way or another. The phone will go to landscape mode when you reveal multimedia keys.

miki69 wrote:

When I click Music player or Web, for a split second both signal and battery indicators are gone. Maybe it's just refresh rate...

Unregistered wrote:Hey..
I have found some bugs in this firmware..
Can anyone confirm??

1. Auto rotation takes around 5 seconds when theme effects are turned on, and looks weird.

2. GPS Data: In this application, i couldn't find that satellite status which i used to see how many satellites are accessible and how many are locked.

3. Music Player: When you pause a song which is playing, and after this you make a call, the song starts playing automatically when you disconnect the call.

4. Real Player: Open any video via xplore in real player using "open by system", now you can not seek through it, ie you cant forward or rewind the video.

5. Web: Web application has started hanging and crashing more than it used to in v11.

Rest i will test and post over here.

Please confirm if you are having same issues.

I can confirm the above 5 bugs in my phone too.
not only that,

1) my music folder is being replace by a stupid regular folder.

2) night picture is worst than v11

Can the Nokia release the next firmware update to fix those issue asap???

sapporobaby wrote:Sad state of affairs with this update.

At an NHL game tonight I met some guys from Nokia and they know the update for the N86 has problems. My mail does not function properly as well. They said that maybe resetting the phone via *#7370# will fix it but that is a big gamble to take. However, I did get to play with the N97 Mini, and N900. Both are very nice but the Mini is just that. Mini. The N900 will most likely be the break out device. The N86 will be forgotten as soon as these two devices hit the shelves.

I doubt it will be forgotten - - it's the new imaging flagship, not to mention the latest, traditional S60 device. The Mini and N900 are different solutions, and are not meant to compete directly with this device, IMHO.

@lukpot: Thanks, I know that, but when you have some images taken in landscape and some in portrail mode, this is not convenient. Simple toolbar option as in 6720 is much better approach as you can manually rotate every image.

lukpot wrote:It also happens when opening calendar, ovi store, or even contacts (if it's opened for the first time)

Cheers,
Miki

Unregistered wrote:

2) night picture is worst than v11

Could you please be more specific? We have reduced the amount of noise reduction to improve the details and some colour tuning refinements.

miki69 wrote:@DaminDinning
Thank you for your assistance and reply.

More v20 regressions:

1. When I try to delete image immediately after it's taken (as soon as side bar pop up), I get message "already in use". Funny thing is "processing" is finished, so I don't understand what is in use?

2. Also, I have a feeling that camera startup is a bit slower with v20.

3. Wallpaper doesn't go fullscreen (unlike in 6720)

4. re BT connection: I still can't connect laptop and N86. Tried to uninstall/reinstall PC Suite, OVI Suite Beta and it's always asking me for location of some files :con? I guess I'll have to wait for new version of PC Suite/Ovi

Cheers,
Miki

1. Not douing this on mine. Will need to look into this more.

2. I compared side by side and is exactly the same.

3. Not a bug and will not be changed I'm afraid. Reasons why are complex and long standing.

4. In PC suite under manage connection you may have two BT connection choices. You should try each one separately. I seem to remember that there is one you shouldn't try and use.

atb

Note to all: If I do not reply to any specific posts, it's most likely because I have noted it and looking into but nothing to say at this stage. Please respect that sometimes there's a limit to what I can say without it being reported elsewhere out of context. Apreciate your understanding in this regard.

I also disagree: Images are much sharper, better color reproduction with new FW. This is the part where I give credits to Nokia.

You can check EXACT night scene taken with v11 and later with v20 below:
http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showpost.php?p=822848&postcount=1194

In many users opinion, image taken with v20 is much better.

Also, Macro mode has been significantly improved as well, check images I took with new FW:
http://forum2.mobile-review.com/showpost.php?p=823258&postcount=1282

Some things definitely need to be improved/added as discussed above, but camera dept. is really good and you do feel the difference comparing to old FW.

Cheers,
Miki

DamianDinning wrote:1. Not douing this on mine. Will need to look into this more.

2. I compared side by side and is exactly the same.

3. Not a bug and will not be changed I'm afraid. Reasons why are complex and long standing.

4. In PC suite under manage connection you may have two BT connection choices. You should try each one separately. I seem to remember that there is one you shouldn't try and use.

Hello,

1. I don't get this message all the time, however it's very frequent. I don't recall having this message with v11, however I'm taking more shots with v20, so maybe this is the reason.

2. Maybe this is a result of broken autorotation, as when disabled camera startup is fine. Generally speaking autorotation cause some hangs and slow redraw in v20. For time being, I switched it OFF.

3. Ok if you say so, I though this was an "issue" (minor one) as 6720 does display wallpaper full screen and they both suppose to be FP2.

4. I will check this, and came back to you

EDIT: re 4. Nope, I have one Bluetooth (Microsoft) option, and when I start pairing devices (123) I get error "Cannot authenticate the phone" in PC Suite. No such problems with 6500s (I tried deleting pairing, adding new one, works as a charm)

EDIT2: IT WORKED!! 😃 Don't know how I did it, but it's working now, however BT connection seems quite slow (painfully slow) comparing to cable connection.

Cheers,
Miki

To speedup a bluetooth connection you have to unload PC Suite main application.

Another issue (regarding v20 new FOCUS):

New focus focuses on some small/tiny/irrelevant detail in image, resulting whole image being blurry (except for that "focus" part). Sometimes it does focus on image centre, and then it's perfect, but I need to "struggle" with focus area. Maybe it's the most illuminated part of image/scene? Any advice? I think we should have old (centre weighted) focus when face detection OFF, and "spot-on focus" when face detection ON.

Same thing happen to me with my "deodorant stick" macro image, stick was in the macro center, occupying almost whole screen , however focus went on the far left side, some totally irrelevant detail got focused :con?. Can Nokia bring back "centre weighted" focus option as well, so we can choose which focus type to use: centre weighted/ spot focus?

As for red/pink Music icon, I don't get option "Move to folder" so I can't remove it from main menu. Not a big deal, just an observation.

Cheers,
Miki

miki69 wrote:Another issue (regarding v20 new FOCUS):

New focus focuses on some small/tiny/irrelevant detail in image, resulting whole image being blurry (except for that "focus" part). Sometimes it does focus on image centre, and then it's perfect, but I need to "struggle" with focus area. Maybe it's the most illuminated part of image/scene? Any advice? I think we should have old (centre weighted) focus when face detection OFF, and "spot-on focus" when face detection ON.

Same thing happen to me with my "deodorant stick" macro image, stick was in the macro center, occupying almost whole screen , however focus went on the far left side, some totally irrelevant detail got focused :con?. Can Nokia bring back "centre weighted" focus option as well, so we can choose which focus type to use: centre weighted/ spot focus?

As for red/pink Music icon, I don't get option "Move to folder" so I can't remove it from main menu. Not a big deal, just an observation.

Cheers,
Miki

😊

There seems to be some degree of misunderstanding here.

with v20 outside of face detection what we have changed is specifically:
1. algorithms in close-up mode which should result in more reliable focus detection as well as focus around 50% closer than was normally possible with v11/10

2. The 'indication' of where the camera has focused.

Outside of that nothing else has really changed in AF although we did also fix an issue in low light where there was some noise present in the viewfinder during focusing.

To elaborate a little more on point 2. Since the N73 the AF system has always used nine focus areas, but in the past you could never see which was in use. Now we show that information to you, but the algorithms between v11 and v20 are largely unchanged other than in close-up. We do prioritise focusing in the centre in close-up but ultimately still depends on amount of contrast, illumination and subject distance. If you are still not happy feel free to post/link to some images so we can take a look. In my experience though having not been happy for sometime with the close-up focus performance I am now generally very happy with the performance now in this area.

BTW re BT, not making the comparison any better is that N86 is around 8x faster in USB transfer speeds than previous generation devices e.g. N95, whereas not much has changed in the area of BT.

DamianDinning wrote:😊

There seems to be some degree of misunderstanding here.

with v20 outside of face detection what we have changed is specifically:
1. algorithms in close-up mode which should result in more reliable focus detection as well as focus around 50% closer than was normally possible with v11/10

2. The 'indication' of where the camera has focused.

Outside of that nothing else has really changed in AF although we did also fix an issue in low light where there was some noise present in the viewfinder during focusing.

To elaborate a little more on point 2. Since the N73 the AF system has always used nine focus areas, but in the past you could never see which was in use. Now we show that information to you, but the algorithms between v11 and v20 are largely unchanged other than in close-up. We do prioritise focusing in the centre in close-up but ultimately still depends on amount of contrast, illumination and subject distance. If you are still not happy feel free to post/link to some images so we can take a look. In my experience though having not been happy for sometime with the close-up focus performance I am now generally very happy with the performance now in this area.

BTW re BT, not making the comparison any better is that N86 is around 8x faster in USB transfer speeds than previous generation devices e.g. N95, whereas not much has changed in the area of BT.

Thank you for your reply. I have made some AWESOME macro shots, and commended that I can get Macro even from less than 10cm distance 😃 (my "deodorant stick" image). Simply amazing. Here they are:

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3003/02102009042.jpg

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/325/02102009048.jpg

As for the night shots, also great improvements:
with v11: http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6184/14092009029.jpg
with v20: http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5991/30092009265.jpg

Regarding focus, I understand your explanation, but still don't understand how come out of those 9 focus areas, the active one is always some "irrelevant" one, very often at far right/left of the scene, not at the object of shooting itself. That's what puzzles me.:con?

re BT - understood, back to cable 😊

Cheers,
Miki

miki69 wrote:

Regarding focus, I understand your explanation, but still don't understand how come out of those 9 focus areas, the active one is always some "irrelevant" one, very often at far right/left of the scene, not at the object of shooting itself. That's what puzzles me.:con?

re BT - understood, back to cable 😊

Cheers,
Miki

Not sure what else I can say. Please post some actual real world (I'm presuming you don't normally take pictures of deodorant do you?) examples if possible if it actually gets it wrong. Then we can look into this in more detail. I think in practice it works though, but happy to check if needed. Need to also keep an open mind that such focus systems can never be 100% reliable as they'll always be some obscure subject/framing which you'll want to do which is outside of the algorithms we use. But we do like to get close to 100% if we can 😊

Hi Damian,

I have some focus issues with the new v20.155.

Please look at this picture totally unfocused (I remember it was the car in the focus while taking this picture):

http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=011020091475hhnn.jpg

Here a comparison between Auto and landscape:

Auto:

http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=021020091509jjb1.jpg

focussed the building behind the truck

Landscape mode:

http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=021020091510j7ni.jpg

I think very good, a bit too many artefacts because of high sharpness.

Hmm I never had such pictures with v11

When everything withthe focus goes right, the new v20 photos in Auto get very good, except of 30% where the focus doesn't work fine like in v11 😞

DamianDinning wrote:Not sure what else I can say. Please post some actual real world (I'm presuming you don't normally take pictures of deodorant do you?) examples if possible if it actually gets it wrong. Then we can look into this in more detail. I think in practice it works though, but happy to check if needed. Need to also keep an open mind that such focus systems can never be 100% reliable as they'll always be some obscure subject/framing which you'll want to do which is outside of the algorithms we use. But we do like to get close to 100% if we can 😊

Thank you DamianDinning, I will take some "real life" images with special attention of focus area, and come back to you.

Another regression in v20: possible issues with Light sensor
This is a tricky part at it largely depends/manifests on environmental lights, so it doesn't reveal always. There are 5 Light sensor levels in setting. I keep it at level 4 (one bar below max). When I unlock phone,after a sec. light sensor kicks in, resulting in screen being lighter/brighter, then light sensor kicks in again (2nd time) resulting screen being even more bright. So I go to Light sensor setting and try to change from level 4 to 5, but there is absolutely no difference (like level 4 is already max). Hope you understand what I mean, as I said this one is pretty tricky to follow, mostly it happens during the daytime, outside.

Cheers,
Miki

miki69 wrote:
As for the night shots, also great improvements:
with v11: http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6184/14092009029.jpg
with v20: http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5991/30092009265.jpg

@DamianDinning

DamianDinning wrote:
Note to all: If I do not reply to any specific posts, it's most likely because I have noted it and looking into but nothing to say at this stage. Please respect that sometimes there's a limit to what I can say without it being reported elsewhere out of context. Apreciate your understanding in this regard.

An issue I have with the "photos" application: I zoom the image 100% and then press "back" and if I immediately try to scroll through the album it freezes and thumbnails are not shown.
Here are the screenshots:

Why can't thumbnails stay loaded, is zooming in consuming too much RAM and thumbs must be "flushed" because of that?

Second problem is also about zooming in 100%. Sometimes it just stays pixelated and won't clear up. I fix it by zooming out and in again.
It's like this:

but it should be like this:

I love my N86, but I disappointed that there is yet to be any firmware release for UK SIM free owners. We paid a lot of money!

DamianDinning wrote:😊

There seems to be some degree of misunderstanding here.

with v20 outside of face detection what we have changed is specifically:
1. algorithms in close-up mode which should result in more reliable focus detection as well as focus around 50% closer than was normally possible with v11/10

2. The 'indication' of where the camera has focused.

Outside of that nothing else has really changed in AF although we did also fix an issue in low light where there was some noise present in the viewfinder during focusing.

To elaborate a little more on point 2. Since the N73 the AF system has always used nine focus areas, but in the past you could never see which was in use. Now we show that information to you, but the algorithms between v11 and v20 are largely unchanged other than in close-up. We do prioritise focusing in the centre in close-up but ultimately still depends on amount of contrast, illumination and subject distance. If you are still not happy feel free to post/link to some images so we can take a look. In my experience though having not been happy for sometime with the close-up focus performance I am now generally very happy with the performance now in this area.

BTW re BT, not making the comparison any better is that N86 is around 8x faster in USB transfer speeds than previous generation devices e.g. N95, whereas not much has changed in the area of BT.

Very interesting information regarding the N73.

I had a few questions, but I totally understand if you can not comment:

1) In your mind, how do you compare the N86 to the N82 in terms of image quality? Would you say there have been refinements to the processing algorithms to produce better images? I have several friends who use the N82 who are on the fence about this device; like parrots, they keep stating the N82 is the best imaging device every released. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on what makes the N86 superior in the imaging department, aside from the improved low light performance and wide angle lens.

2) Can we expect more FW updates down the road? I know there can't always be huge additions (face detection, etc), but updates every several months keeps the device fresh and exciting.

Thanks-

Unregistered wrote:I love my N86, but I disappointed that there is yet to be any firmware release for UK SIM free owners. We paid a lot of money!

FWs will be rolling out through the week.

newtype wrote:Very interesting information regarding the N73.

I had a few questions, but I totally understand if you can not comment:

1) In your mind, how do you compare the N86 to the N82 in terms of image quality? Would you say there have been refinements to the processing algorithms to produce better images? I have several friends who use the N82 who are on the fence about this device; like parrots, they keep stating the N82 is the best imaging device every released. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on what makes the N86 superior in the imaging department, aside from the improved low light performance and wide angle lens.

2) Can we expect more FW updates down the road? I know there can't always be huge additions (face detection, etc), but updates every several months keeps the device fresh and exciting.

Thanks-

1. 😊) I was responsible for concepting both N82 and N86 8MP. For a long time I loved my N82 I would say principally because of the camera and flash. I think one of the reasons why N82 is loved so much is it's all round image quality, good exposure, sharpness and colour. Last year I used it to take half our holiday pictures. The other half being with my Nikon digital SLR. This year however (although I have to admit because I knew it was not a sightseering holiday) I left my Nikon at home and used ONLY my N86 running a development version of the v20 fw. When I showed those images to friends and family on our plasma TV at home via our computer they could not believe they were not taken with a good digital camera. I appreciate that if you were to compare against digital SLR's at 100% magnifaction and higher you would notice some sifferences in normal viewing in most situations you can now really get great punchy results. This has been exactly our intent and am now really happy with what we;ve achieved in this area. vs the N82 I think we now provide much more image detail, with no/very little distruction of details like we have had in the past due to noise reduction and other aspects that have now all contributed to the new tunings, but I think we've also been able to do this whilst maintaining punchy yet realistic colour. Some people comment that other products also give punchy colour. However, they tend to acheive this through simple increasing thwe saturation. The result is vibrant but false colour. If you know a pinck rose is pink you don;t want it to be red even it is ounchy for example.

Another area is the video, there's a lot more detail now with N86 plus you have the benefit of almost highly usable zoom in video, whereas digitcal zoom has always for me at leats been a no go area dfue to too much degradation in IQ.

Shot to shot times are faster. You already mentioned the low light and wideangle, both significant benefits in their own right.

Does this mean we have nothing further to improve? No, I'm never happy, many that work with me will tell you that 😉

Re FW updates, sorry can't provide any details here right now.

atb

djmuzi1 wrote:Hi Damian,

I have some focus issues with the new v20.155.

Please look at this picture totally unfocused (I remember it was the car in the focus while taking this picture):

http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=011020091475hhnn.jpg

Here a comparison between Auto and landscape:

Auto:

http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=021020091509jjb1.jpg

focussed the building behind the truck

Landscape mode:

http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=021020091510j7ni.jpg

I think very good, a bit too many artefacts because of high sharpness.

Hmm I never had such pictures with v11

When everything withthe focus goes right, the new v20 photos in Auto get very good, except of 30% where the focus doesn't work fine like in v11 😞

I'd like to look into this more. However, I can only download a bmp version from the site you've hosted these on. Could you share the actual out of the camera images again? If I'm using the site wrongly then please feel free to provide instructions. I have a colleague who reads German but she couldn't see any obvious way of downloading the original file.

thanks

D

Unregistered wrote:I love my N86, but I disappointed that there is yet to be any firmware release for UK SIM free owners. We paid a lot of money!

We're working on it...