The changing shape of Nseries - no scaremongering, just the facts

A good article again.

Reality is that Symbian OS sales is about to explode, because current S40 phones will be gradually replaced with Symbian models.

Rafe, I am glad that someone takes the time to write a comprehensive and well documented article to stop all the noise going around for the past couple days.
What has been obvious for quite many of us is still a mystery for a certain category of journalists.

Adding a bit of "history" in the discussion.
Nokia's existing consumer base is huge.
In the past 3 years, the UI of S40 devices has been converging towards the experience available on Symbian.
This enables Nokia to bridge the gap between lower and higher range platforms, making it easier for its consumers to move from one to the other.
Consumer's phones evolves with them, offering new opportunities, but keeping the experience consistent.
Looking at the "game changers" of the past couple of years, they all have in common the "novelty" of their UI/UX.
Nokia could not afford renewing the Symbian UI from one day to the other, Symbian needed to be consistent.
That is when Maemo entered the mobile computer segment.
From Maemo to Meego, Intel provides new opportunities and Meego is now the powerhorse of Nokia.
Its customer base belongs to a completely different segment than any Symbian devices.
Meego lives on the edge, and any innovation that matures and becomes a benefit for the masses will make it to Symbian.
Meego is the F1, while Symbian powers the mass production cars, where sedans, sports and coupe share the market.

And most of all, one can not go without the other. They need each other to survive and grow!

What noise?

Only a few bloggers repeating inaccurate rumours. They should have been paying attention to Nokia last year at Nokia World and Capital Markets Day. Do you jump every time you hear a rumour? Maybe you should spend less time in "The Shallows" of social media sites. Less time on the internet is healthy.

There is a much bigger problem with the statements: MeeGo is not ready for the mass market yet, the integeration is a long way away. Nokia says 10-15 per cent of all devices sale be MeeGo this year. Nokia predicts 1.26bn device shipments for 2010 - so that is 126-189 million MeeGo devices to ship between now and the end of December.

So Nokia's numbers don't add up.

Thank you for putting so much effort into clarifying this issue. When I first saw a headline pronouncing the death of Symbian, I came straight here for answers. It's nice to see there is now an informed response to all the buzz.

alphamusic wrote:Thank you for putting so much effort into clarifying this issue. When I first saw a headline pronouncing the death of Symbian, I came straight here for answers. It's nice to see there is now an informed response to all the buzz.

This non-issue has been clarified from time to time since 2008 😉. Don't believe the hype. Looking forward to Meego and S^4.

Oh come on, this is absurd. Are you really trying to claim that MeeGo is any more advanced than iOS or Android? Symbian is over, MeeGo represents some hope for Nokia, but they are still years behind the big new competitors in the smartphone market.

Unregistered wrote:What noise? Only a few bloggers repeating inaccurate rumours. They should have been paying attention to Nokia last year at Nokia World and Capital Markets Day.

I thought it was an issue worth addressing because there does seem to be confusion around this.

Unregistered wrote:Nokia says 10-15 per cent of all devices sale be MeeGo this year. Nokia predicts 1.26bn device shipments for 2010 - so that is 126-189 million MeeGo devices to ship between now and the end of December.

So Nokia's numbers don't add up.

I think you're mistaken here. The 10-15 per cent you refer to is net sales - not number of devices. They are also for 2011 not 2010. Will be about selling fewer expensive devices. Oh and the 1.26 bn device shipment is the whole market - Nokia is around 40% of that.

Nokia have been claiming that the N-series were mobile computers for years now. And now they're going back and saying "Oh, actually, they were just smartphones, we lied".

All smartphones are mobile computers, I don't see the need for the separation.

Here comes Rafe... the omni present Symbian apologist 😉

Sorry mate, Meego is the only hope Nokia has. The good thing is the people in charge in Finland seem to realize this.

Out of all the reviews so far on the N8 I have read of no one reviewing running any third party apps. Will there be any or do we hang and wait like we do for S60V5. Still waiting for proper internet radio app for that. My guess the OVI store will be bare for the N8 like it is for the N900 and this will be what turn the remaing half of N97 owners to Apple and Android. (half are pissed already and half the 5800 owners too)

Thanks for the insightful article Rafe. I remember Nokia's announcement last year about transitioning the Nseries to Maemo, and knew the N8 would probably be the last Symbian Nseries device. Until I read your article, however, I didn't truly understand that Nokia is really changing the concept of the Nseries altogether. Ever since Nokia made the N8x0 devices, I had wondered why they had bothered changing the name; despite Maemo's potential, the Symbian Nseries devices were (and are) so much more capable. Even today, even though I have an N800, I use my N95 to do everything mobile, because it can do everything mobile I need it to do. Even the N900 still can't do that yet. But Nokia had positioned the Nseries as the do-all uber-phones...so why have these half-functional non-phones in the same line-up?

I get it now. Going forward, the Nseries devices are Internet access devices first, phones second. Nseries devices like the N900 and it's successors will use MeeGo to compete with iOS and Android devices. That doesn't just mean iPhones and Android phones, but iPads and Android-powered tablets too. Eseries and Xseries will be smartphones for people who want a phone first, that does the other stuff second. The Nseries will fight at a higher (price and performance) level in the market than it has in the past, and it can do this because the E- and X-phones are there to take the middle ground that used to be served by the cheaper N-devices.

I'm still not sure where the Cseries is supposed to fit; I know it's for the low-end, I-just-want-a-phone-that-I-can-put-annoying-ringtones-on crowd, but I don't see why that market needs a touchscreen+QWERTY keyboard slider like the C6.

Here comes Arthur with nothing to say that adds any value.

No change there then.

Good article, Rafe. Nokia face some tough challenges ahead and their strategy to do it is interesting.

RealityCheck wrote:Oh come on, this is absurd. Are you really trying to claim that MeeGo is any more advanced than iOS or Android? Symbian is over, MeeGo represents some hope for Nokia, but they are still years behind the big new competitors in the smartphone market.

Thats quite an apt guest name, you definitely need one ....

MeeGo is definitely more advanced than iOS and Android. Even the old N770 running the various HE versions of Maemo was more advanced. I doubt we'll see Nokia supporting MeeGo in quite the same ludicrously hacker friendly manner that they did Maemo though (although that was originally a skunkworks project).

In what way are Symbian and MeeGo years behind iOS or Android? Sure, you can mention the UI on S60/5th being relatively archaic, but the way people talk its as if its actually difficult to use. If you can't understand the overall operation of a 5800 or N97, then you quite possibly have "breath" tattooed on your eyelids as a reminder.

I notice the negative minds always turn up in force to express their futile denials everytime Nokia make a positive move such as this.

Personally, I am pleased to see that Nokia will be using Symbian as the OS for the normal smartphones. I am not interested in blowing a fortune on a phone and I am not interested in geeking around with it. Going by the working from Nokia, Meego is not for me, there will be Symbian phones that are more advanced than the N8 is now, but without the nurdy stigma. Good news. And I believe I am in the vast vast majority.

Clever by Nokia, good news for Symbian. There are FAR more Android 1.6 phones being sold than there are 2.1, because people just want a phone not a number. Only a few want the bleeding edge, and this is where the negative people can't see beyond their own little worlds.

100 million Symbian in 2010? I suggest far more.

So once the masses find out the N8 is the last of that os will they still wanna buy the device remeber the man/lady in tthe pub wants the apps.. one news story even if misreported could blow holes in the N8 mass sales.
When oh when am i going to have the option of a power of an n900 device which is also as capable of email/ document usage as a E71 E72?

So now we have N8 which is Symbian ^3, then Symbian^4 is coming, a complete ground-up rewrite, but future high-end devices will be Meego. :stupido3: :banghead:

So to avoid being a Nokia Guinea Pig, won't buy any high-end Nokia for a least 12 months! :dontknow:

Would a Nokia Android device mean the end of civilisation as we know it?

Arthur wrote:Here comes Rafe... the omni present Symbian apologist 😉

Sorry mate, Meego is the only hope Nokia has. The good thing is the people in charge in Finland seem to realize this.

And here comes Arthur, who NEVER has anything positive to say...

Please explain why you believe that Symbian has no future, or perhaps you can't, because you are so clearly wrong...

clonmult wrote:In what way are Symbian and MeeGo years behind iOS or Android? Sure, you can mention the UI on S60/5th being relatively archaic, but the way people talk its as if its actually difficult to use. If you can't understand the overall operation of a 5800 or N97, then you quite possibly have "breath" tattooed on your eyelids as a reminder.

Let's be honest, the iPhone UI is fairly archaic, simply presenting many screens of icons. Funnily enough, the iOS4 UI adopts a system whereby icons can be arranged in folders, much like S60...

"Let's be honest, the iPhone UI is fairly archaic, simply presenting many screens of icons. Funnily enough, the iOS4 UI adopts a system whereby icons can be arranged in folders, much like S60..."

Indeed. iOS is gradually catching up with where S60 was in 2003. It even has partial multitasking, so that's roughly where Psion were in 1990. And the iPhone's camera has almost caught up with the Nokia N82 of 2007. They'll get there in the end.

Steve [with tongue gently in cheek]

buster wrote:Let's be honest, the iPhone UI is fairly archaic, simply presenting many screens of icons. Funnily enough, the iOS4 UI adopts a system whereby icons can be arranged in folders, much like S60...

It is looking a bit dated, but it's still fit for purpose.

Does it or any of the Android skins not do what they need to do? Symbian^3 will also be there as good as they need to be. There is no new innovation here, we still wait for that from any OS.

The only problems with current UIs are when the makers try and add too much - fancy transitions and animations just for the sake of pretty without purpose. Win Mobile I am looking at you.

For the unregistered users above who seem to have trouble reading:
The N8 will be the last N-Series device running Symbian. Symbian^3 will be used for other devices, and total Symbian sales will exceed those of the iphone or Android devices this and next year. Seeing the replacement cycles for smartphones are within that timeframe, there is no need to fear that you are buying into a dying system.
Since Symbian^3 is an evolution from ^1 (aka S60 5th edition), you can expect ^1 applications to run on it. While there is not as big a choice as for the iphone or Android, all general needs are covered by what there is, and I personally feel that there are enough extras to keep you playing around for a while as well.
As for waiting for Symbian^4: The N8 probably won't get an update to this (though who knows?). Unlike Apple, Nokia has a lot of different devices on offer, and can't reasonably be expected to update them all with all new features. You have to know whether getting a device in a form factor and with capabilities that best suit you instead of a one-size-fits all is a trade-off for you. Considering that iphone updates of recent years have not brought much in the way of functionality that Symbian doesn't already have, I'd say you don't lose too much here. Plus Nokia does issue new firmware (at least for its more popular devices) on a far more frequent basis than Apple. My 5800 is a much better device now than it was when I bought it (though there was no big fanfare about new things being added, just quiet, efficient, unproblematic OTA udpates that didn't even require connection to a computer).
If you need fancy transitions and UI glitz at every step of the way, then wait if ^4 brings this - or go somewhere else. The iphone may be the phone for you, or maybe Android, or give Bada a try. There are a lot of systems out there. I won't slag off any of them - they all have their strengths and weaknesses, and you as the customer have to decide which you think best fits you.
Just be aware that, whatever the U.S.-centric blogosphere may be saying, Symbian is here to stay for a long time, and is a viable choice for many people.

Unregistered wrote:Still waiting for proper internet radio app for that.

Yea symbian is being pushed down to the masses. But it is all over for the days in top of the line no expense flag ship models.

Hi Steve Litchfield. I don't know why you say that about the iphone'4s camera. From all the sample pictures, its clear the sensor is the most sensitive one used in phones by quite a margin. Yes the N8 does have more megapixels but its quality per pixel isn't as good.

Here is little FAQ for people who are concerned about software support for the N8 and Symbian^3:

- Will the N8 be able to run all the apps and games that are already made for S60 5th?

YES! Symbian^3 is backwards compatible while also having the new native Qt system integrated into the OS. So, essentially you can say the Symbian^3 is a hybrid since it has both the S60/Avkon system AS WELL AS the new Qt system.

- Will the N8 be able to run all the Java apps written for S60 5th J2ME?

YES! It will run just fine, and probably a lot faster than on S60 5th devices.

- Will apps written in Qt for the N8 / Symbian^3 run on future Symbian^4 devices?

YES! That's one of cardinal ideas behind Qt, the aim is to throw out S60/Avkon in Symbian^4.

- Will Qt apps also run on older S60 5th devices?

YES! With an automatic download of the Qt libraries through a smart installer, this will work also. The user shouldn't notice anything.

- Will developers writing Qt apps for the N8 be able to publish them for Maemo/Meego devices?

YES! The Qt SDK supports building the SAME source-code for both platforms. Qt works in exactly the same way across Maemo/Meego, Symbian^3 and Symbian^4. Even games written in Qt and OpenGL ES can be build and hence work on those platforms.

- Will Symbian^4 be able to run old native S60 apps?

No, it will not. That's why Symbian^3 is first - to bridge the app support going from the old systems to the new unified Qt system.

Hope this answers people concerns.

/Henrik...

Unregistered wrote:Hi Steve Litchfield. I don't know why you say that about the iphone'4s camera. From all the sample pictures, its clear the sensor is the most sensitive one used in phones by quite a margin. Yes the N8 does have more megapixels but its quality per pixel isn't as good.

Oh really. I believe you, your proof seems to be valid and scientifically sound.

Oh what a mess! Symbian, MeeGo, Maemo..?!

Looks like he's deserting a sinking ship:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/25/charles_davies/

Unregistered wrote:Hi Steve Litchfield. I don't know why you say that about the iphone'4s camera. From all the sample pictures, its clear the sensor is the most sensitive one used in phones by quite a margin. Yes the N8 does have more megapixels but its quality per pixel isn't as good.

Have you seen any side-by-side examples of both of them?

As for sensitivity, until someone gets a high end Nikon sensor with 100,000+ISO sensitivity into a phone, the best way of capturing the moment in a low light situation is with a xenon flash. Not LEDs.

The iPhone 4 can apparently do okay in low light, but I'm willing to bet that it'll be lousy in comparison to what the N8 can do. Remember how good the N82 was in low light, due to it having a flash?

The N8 camera has (as has been mentioned on these pages, and you obviously missed) the largest sensor in a mobile by far, and larger than most compact dedicated cameras. As a result (and using Jobs' style here) it has considerably more photons reaching each sensor than anything else out there - as a result it should be considerably better.

But we'll wait until someone does a genuine comparison.

Unregistered wrote:Here is little FAQ for people who are concerned about software support for the N8 and Symbian^3:

- Will the N8 be able to run all the apps and games that are already made for S60 5th?

YES! Symbian^3 is backwards compatible while also having the new native Qt system integrated into the OS. So, essentially you can say the Symbian^3 is a hybrid since it has both the S60/Avkon system AS WELL AS the new Qt system.

Symbian^3 will behave differently in respect to older versions, a single tap will now be used to select an entry, instead of highlighting it. This also means that code has to be adepted.

- Will apps written in Qt for the N8 / Symbian^3 run on future Symbian^4 devices?

YES! That's one of cardinal ideas behind Qt, the aim is to throw out S60/Avkon in Symbian^4.

- Will Qt apps also run on older S60 5th devices?

YES! With an automatic download of the Qt libraries through a smart installer, this will work also. The user shouldn't notice anything.

- Will developers writing Qt apps for the N8 be able to publish them for Maemo/Meego devices?

YES! The Qt SDK supports building the SAME source-code for both platforms. Qt works in exactly the same way across Maemo/Meego, Symbian^3 and Symbian^4. Even games written in Qt and OpenGL ES can be build and hence work on those platforms.

Note that this is source code compatibility, not binary compatibility. Apps will have to be recompiled, and binaries for one platform will not work on another one.

Also note that Symbian C++ engines and code that uses Symbian API's cannot be used on MeeGo without porting them to Standard C++ and Linux.