In defense of the Nokia E90...

Yeah. Here in Finland my E90 has been "in hour" service over 3 weeks now. They have even stop advertising it on major papers here. I really would like to know what E90 managers are doing now a days 😊

Jonnycat26 wrote:I think people like Andrew are really irritated with the state of affairs within Nokia. And honestly, can anyone blame them? I certainly count myself amongst those who are wondering just what Nokia has been thinking for the last few years...

Has any good come of splitting their phone people into two separate and competitive divisions? And before answering, think about it... how good could the N95 and the tragically unsupported E65 (just for example) have been had both teams been working together with combined resources to create good phones... rather than working with limited resources and personnel?

The E90 is, to many longtime Psion/Nokia users, a kick in the teeth. How absolutely pathetic is it that my 8 year old Revo+ has more functional contacts and calendaring applications than the E90? I don't care about the pretty colors in the UI... I care about functionality. How did this state of affairs come to be?

Exactly.

It's not as if the S80 Communicators were that great - they weren't.

But on my �20-on-eBay Revo I can see, in Week view: the details of 21 calender entries - on the 9300 I can see just 14. On the Revo I can see 21 day appointments - on the 9300, I can see just 7.

While on the E90, in Week View, I can see ... one appointment at a time! :icon13:

Technology should improve, not go backwards.

steve could you please clarify i) how nokia care changes the keyboard ii) what does it do exactly for the screen for any possible future scratches? iii) whether it does anything that removes the scracthes and dots that already occures? iv)and are you sure about what you said regarding the fixing of the microphone? (because all of the people in Nokia Discussions I have encountered, from various countries, who sent their devices for repair of the microphone indicate that Nokia had to change the entire motherboard of the device, in other words it did not merely fix the microphone, and the repair card that they received also indicates as such.) v) in respect of my last question and my comment thereto, I was wondering whether you, personally, suffered from any of the above-mentioned hardware issues, especially the mic problem, and had to send it/take it to Nokia Care for repair? if yes, could you please share your experience? Like whether you took it or send it to Nokia Care? whether it took days or moments to fix etc.? If not, are you really sure as to what you said regrding how these problems are solved so easily. Thank you. (PS. There is not a single person whose mic problem was solved through a way other than changing motherboard in Nokia Discussions.Some of these report that now the mic works fine, whereas some say the problem still exists.)

Why waste so much energy on something that doesn't suit you at all?

What a strange way of looking at the world!

You appear to have forgetten something. I'm a journalist, not a fan boy. My job is to write about the industry, and technology in context - not pin love hearts on phones.

Products are a sign of a company's health. Just as your grandpa leaving a trail of slime across the floor is a sign that something isn't quite right with grandpa - Nokia releasing the E90 is a sign that something isn't quite right with Nokia, either.

Look closer, and you can see Nokia has abandoned two good QWERTY UIs in two years. The hardware's great, but Nokia doesn't have any Communicator software any more. So then you have to ask, why? Are these organisational issues, like in-fighting - or an inevitable consequence of having to compete in a low-margin business? Is Nokia trying to tell us Enterprise doesn't matter?

(You'd know all this from reading El Reg, by the way)

The person you're describing appears to be a sad, nomadic fanboy who wanders from one product family to another, hoping for some sort of self-validation. But guess what? Normal people aren't like this. Normal people don't identify so closely with a consumer product they define themselves by it.

If this is how you see your readers, I'm very sorry for you. Please treat them with respect and intelligence - and try look at the bigger picture.

The problem is not to have a good or bad internal screen. What matters the most is WHAT it will display.

For people who like hissings and whistlings, its great (I know taht "via firmware updates"...etc). The good side is you can get some money back with a show in a circus : and now, the whistling phone 😊 (bad joke)

Please, don't blame 3rd party developers !!! Blame Nokia team if you have any bitterness : it was THEIR JOB to provide a device fully workable.

Why should one pay for other Contacts, Messaging, Web and Calendar' App ? Is it a business device or one which first purpose is to watch Matrix ?

Good camera which will be fully useable after... the might-be upcoming firmware.

Meanwhile, it would have been great to use it while the internal screen is opened (this might happen with the upc...).

If you can wait 5 or 10 mn before starting your car (this delay will be drastically improved in the upcoming firmware).

People simply wanted to work with it as a business tool.

Andrew,

mr.orlowski wrote:What a strange way of looking at the world!

You appear to have forgetten something. I'm a journalist, not a fan boy. My job is to write about the industry, and technology in context - not pin love hearts on phones.

Look closer, and you can see Nokia has abandoned two good QWERTY UIs in two years.

The hardware's great, but Nokia doesn't have any Communicator software any more.

If this is how you see your readers, I'm very sorry for you. Please treat them with respect and intelligence - and try look at the bigger picture.

And considering that My-Symbian has always had much higher traffic and visitor count than TheRegister.com (at least according to Alexa and similar services), maybe you should take better care of YOUR visitors, not mine....?

CAN SOMEONE REPLY TO THESE PLS Steve could you please clarify i) how nokia care changes the keyboard ii) what does it do exactly for the screen for any possible future scratches? iii) whether it does anything that removes the scracthes and dots that already occures? iv)and are you sure about what you said regarding the fixing of the microphone? (because all of the people in Nokia Discussions I have encountered, from various countries, who sent their devices for repair of the microphone indicate that Nokia had to change the entire motherboard of the device, in other words it did not merely fix the microphone, and the repair card that they received also indicates as such.) v) in respect of my last question and my comment thereto, I was wondering whether you, personally, suffered from any of the above-mentioned hardware issues, especially the mic problem, and had to send it/take it to Nokia Care for repair? if yes, could you please share your experience? Like whether you took it or send it to Nokia Care? whether it took days or moments to fix etc.? If not, are you really sure as to what you said regrding how these problems are solved so easily. Thank you. (PS. There is not a single person whose mic problem was solved through a way other than changing motherboard in Nokia Discussions.Some of these report that now the mic works fine, whereas some say the problem still exists.)

Unregistered wrote:CAN SOMEONE REPLY TO THESE PLS Steve could you please clarify i) how nokia care changes the keyboard ii) what does it do exactly for the screen for any possible future scratches? iii) whether it does anything that removes the scracthes and dots that already occures? iv)and are you sure about what you said regarding the fixing of the microphone? (because all of the people in Nokia Discussions I have encountered, from various countries, who sent their devices for repair of the microphone indicate that Nokia had to change the entire motherboard of the device, in other words it did not merely fix the microphone, and the repair card that they received also indicates as such.) v) in respect of my last question and my comment thereto, I was wondering whether you, personally, suffered from any of the above-mentioned hardware issues, especially the mic problem, and had to send it/take it to Nokia Care for repair? if yes, could you please share your experience? Like whether you took it or send it to Nokia Care? whether it took days or moments to fix etc.? If not, are you really sure as to what you said regrding how these problems are solved so easily. Thank you. (PS. There is not a single person whose mic problem was solved through a way other than changing motherboard in Nokia Discussions.Some of these report that now the mic works fine, whereas some say the problem still exists.)

What a lot of questions! i) well documented around the net, Nokia has a mk II case design with raised bump at front of keyboard. ii) er.... iii) I daresay a badly marked screen will be cleaned or replaced. iv) no idea - maybe the motherboard has to be replaced, maybe it's just quicker to do this than mess around soldering components? v) no, my E90 has been just about perfect. Just lucky? I do make sure never to use it with dirty or greasy hands. And I never ever drop it etc.

Steve

My-Symbian.com wrote:

(to Mr Orlowski) Wasn't the last Psion the last EPOC/Symbian device you wrote anything positive about?
(to unregistered)I didn't mean Contacts, Messaging or Web. There are lots of other useful things 3rd party programs can do. And you cannot expect everything to be implemented in the device by default.

It may simply be because Psion has never been equaled in its softwares and keyboard's quality. When you were buying a Psion, "Contacts, Messaging or Web" among others were the best implemented softwares that 3rd party ones didn't equal... except for the Web where the new communicators are surely better. But today, mini Opera makes miracles on basic phones...

So let's start discussing about what Nokia should do to make the S60 platform Communicator capable. You know that Nokia works on new edition of S60, you know that they work on Touch for S60. So changes are possible. Why not talk about them instead of repeating ad nauseam that Nokia had a great UI in the past and lost it. Completely unproductive, in my humble opinion.

The truth is that new devices are "completely unproductive" compared to a Psion for instance. (I know, I exagerate... but don't you when using such words ?) Psion' keyboard, softwares, etc was making you really productive and was not a simple viewer you were synchronising with your PC.

They're my readers because they accept and share my point of view - that's why they stay with me for so long. Or did you think I force them or bribe them with candies?

I don't think readers have to accept your opinions for reading your topics. People can have different points of view and it is always rewarding to share them. And I don't agree with you when you close a topic (like slaming a door) because you can't impose your opinions to some readers... It is not a way to have the last word and it even prevents others from discussing !

That is a shame because you forum is really the best for symbian users 😉

It says that nokia can repair the circuitry in just one day. IT'S FALSE! I gave away my Nokia E90 ONE MONTH AGO and I still cannot use it, because Nokia still has to repeair it.
Sorry to say that, but I think that someone whose name starts with N and ends with A, suggested to write that FALSE articole.

😞

I've seen evidence from plenty of people who've had a Nokia Service Centre turn round a device in a matter of hours. Tip: phone ahead and tell them what's going to be needed. There's no point in surrendering your device if they haven't got the parts etc.

Michal, great and accurate notes!

Thanks for that! I cannot understand the point in bashing a device (or a family of devices) for the mere reason of... bashing.

Take care
Borys

Phew!... What a "CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE" the Nokia E 90 has brought up... hehehe...

I find the Nokia E 90 a good replacement for the Nokia 9300i... though it takes time to get used to... I Find the Symbian Series 60 3rd Edition powerful enough for the communicator series and good multimedia... thanks to Nokia...

With the Firmware upgrades... Steve, what would be some of the major upgrades included/changed... ?

martinharnevie wrote:Steve, I largely agree with what you say in this article. One general comment though.

The article is narrowly comparing the S60 Communicators with the S80 Communicators and Psion 5mx. While this might be of interest per se, I think this alone should not guide future firmware upgrades of the E90 nor other future devices in the E9x series. The S80 devices, as per Ewan's previous article, were far from perfect.

Instead, one should take a step back and ask the more broader question; what do the mobile professionals really require in all target markets around the world? Mobile professionals include journalists, lawyers, business(wo)men, mobile sales(wo)men etc. What features do they need? For capturing information. For rearrange information. For editing and packaging information. And for diseminating information to their organisation, customers and partners. Nokia's weakness is that they have never seriously done this. Instead their devices often appear to be an aggregate of whatever features that are cost effectively at hand at that particular time. The UI and features of the E90 could have been far better, with just a little analysis, target market understanding and common sense. This should guide the future E9x devices.

One additional minor comment; let's not dismiss faxing just because it's not in the E90. Sure, faxing is obsolete in most of Europe. But it's considered a very effective, secure and fast business tool in the rest of the world, even the US. The removal of fax machines doesn't mean that faxing is outdated. Much of the faxing today is between computers. They just use the fax protocol since it's effective and secure.

Totally agree with what you say and it is a good idea. There are loads of forums filled with wishlists and there is even one on the s60.com website. Not sure how many of these requests are heard though.

slitchfield wrote:I've seen evidence from plenty of people who've had a Nokia Service Centre turn round a device in a matter of hours. Tip: phone ahead and tell them what's going to be needed. There's no point in surrendering your device if they haven't got the parts etc.

My-Symbian.com wrote:And considering that My-Symbian has always had much higher traffic and visitor count than TheRegister.com (at least according to Alexa and similar services), maybe you should take better care of YOUR visitors, not mine....?

Oops!

No wonder you're confused - all this time, you've been looking at the wrong URL :tongue:

TheRegister.Co.Uk is what gets the traffic. Forget gimmicks like Alexa, which are easily rigged - and look for independently audited figures. The Register has 35 million visitors a month, and 5 million uniques a month.

This figure might also interest you:

41 per cent work for organisations with > 1000 employees; 40 per cent for SMEs.

You have fanboys, but we have a very demanding readership amongst real business users - people who buy Communicator in large quantities as part of their IT infrastructure - and also entrepreneurs.

This is the core market for Nokia Enterprise. Therefore I have to report the truth, unpleasant as it may be. But people respect someone who is very honest about the limitations of a technology, rather than a fanboy evangelist.

You should try it.

Unregistered wrote:It may simply be because Psion has never been equaled in its softwares and keyboard's quality.

Regarding the software part, haven't I mentioned in my E90 review that the Calendar and Contacts apps are too simple? I did. They should have been more advanced. No question about that. But since they aren't and there are much more advanced third party apps available (and not too expensive for a person who can afford E90), let's simply make our lives simpler and use them.

The truth is that new devices are "completely unproductive" compared to a Psion for instance.

Psion' keyboard, softwares, etc was making you really productive and was not a simple viewer you were synchronising with your PC.

But today, mini Opera makes miracles on basic phones...

I don't think readers have to accept your opinions for reading your topics.

People can have different points of view and it is always rewarding to share them. And I don't agree with you when you close a topic (like slaming a door) because you can't impose your opinions to some readers... It is not a way to have the last word and it even prevents others from discussing !

Secondly, the ONLY topics I closed were the ones where someone went to far and - like "MiniME" user in this very thread - started throwing groundless accusations or offending someone.

Saying that I have to always have the last word only means that you don't know my forums too much. If you check, there are dozens of threads on my forums complaining about the E90 and for two or so months I haven't even posted a single message in any of them because I decided it's not worth it. Simply because some people are "waterproof" for any arguments and alergic to contrary opinions, and talking with them only incites completely unproductive flame wars. Are you one of them?

That is a shame because you forum is really the best for symbian users 😉

Unregistered wrote:Hi Sander ! Are you still working on PDF printer for the E90 ?

Yes, but Pdf+ with E90 extensions is first to be released.

Sander van der Wal
www.mBrainSoftware.com

A few observations:

- The Revo is a lot larger than the E90, I know as I use both, and it has no backlight or ability to control the angle of tilt of the screen
- Different products are aimed at different markets and products are designed to differentiate themselves in the time/place when they were conceived. The Revo was a business device, therefore no media capabilities. Steve did say S60 was desiged for a particular form factor many years ago and does not suit the three form factors of the E90
- As Nokia, on the software side, have not built-on their historic capability does indicate a lack of continuity and does seem a bit odd for those of us who have been around for too many years looking at these things
- And as you all know different people have different requirements and products like the E90 which have so many features that they can be used by most people effectively. Without Papyrus or Handy Calendar I would struggle and would need to use my Revo with my E90 (which I did do for a few weeks). But for me the very easy to setup and use Mail Exchange, 3.5G and DVD quality video recording are features that compensate for features that are not s strong as the best of the best
- Finally, even the Revo can't better Agendus (Palm PIM) running on a Sony Clie TH55 (which Sony stopped making about 3 years ago), and I could go on identifying other 'best of breed' capabilties of other products. But can one product ever have the best features of all other products?

mr.orlowski wrote:TheRegister.Co.Uk is what gets the traffic. Forget gimmicks like Alexa, which are easily rigged - and look for independently audited figures. The Register has 35 million visitors a month, and 5 million uniques a month.

Yet it still doesn't mean that there is any reason for you to be sorry for me, my website or my visitors. We manage, without your (doubtful) compassion.

This figure might also interest you: 41 per cent work for organisations with > 1000 employees; 40 per cent for SMEs.

You have fanboys, but we have a very demanding readership

amongst real business users - people who buy Communicator in large quantities as part of their IT infrastructure - and also entrepreneurs.

This is the core market for Nokia Enterprise.

Therefore I have to report the truth, unpleasant as it may be.

But people respect someone who is very honest about the limitations of a technology, rather than a fanboy evangelist.

so what is nokia's current warranty terms for defective E90 phones (e.g. Noise on calls, marking on inside screen due to keyboard)?

Rather than replacing all this defective parts they should replace the old phone with a newly produced unit which has the newer parts. It is like buying something which you know is damaged then having someone repair it. If they do tinkering on the defective phone then other aspect or part of the phone might be damaged (because the unit was already opened).

As a consumer, Nokia must provide me with what I paid for - a NEW Communicator, free from hardware defects.

So again, what is Nokia's warranty terms?

Quote: Mr. Litchfield's Apolegetics

The camera shutter button is flimsy and doesn't always work - despite the presence of a 3.s megapixel camera and VGA video recording, it does seem as though camera functions are somewhat secondary to the E90's general existence. The problem with the shutter button is that there's a software bug where the button doesn't always lock into the right 'mode', with the result that the auto-focus isn't always engaged. Something else for Nokia to fix in the upcoming firmware?

If You or Nokia is telling us consumers that the reason for the flimsy camera button is because it is a SECONDARY function of the phone - is unacceptable.

That is not how you do business. You provide your customer with the best product you can. So is a flimsy camera button all Nokia can provide?

I think not. I am a fan of Nokia Phones and i believe they can do better. So if Mr. Steve has some direct contact with nokia, please relay this to them.

You do not do things just for the sake of doing it. The name of Nokia should equate to Quality. Not just providing new phones at a quick pace.

I will be frank. Steve: Considering your reply to my questions basically showing that you didn't take your own E90 to Nokia Care + the comments of some people here regarding the repair of the device + the comments of ALL people in Nokia Discussionswho took their E90 to Nokia Care stating unanimously that Nokia changed the motherboard, I reach the conclusion that, in respect of hardware issues, especially and at least for the microphone problem, Nokia would not fix it in an hour or so. Therefore what you heard about the repair of mic other than motherboard change does not seem plauisable and thus most likely falsie.

They may chnage the keyboard in a very short time. That seems probable. But I would not share your opinion as to Nokia may replace (the huge, highly of quality, and thus expensive) LCD according to the extent of damage on the screen. I don't think that Nokia would be that generous. If it accepts to replace the LCD, then it has to do it for ALL E90s having even a single dot due to the keyboard IMHO.

i cant imagine Nokia changes the keyboard, LCD and the motherboard of the device. It would mean to change 95% of the device. This is an implicit acceptance of the fact that E90 is defective and thus needs to be replaced. Nokia needs to call back E90s and should grant free replacement if it will change my keyboard, LCD and more importantly, the motherboars.

PS. I vehemently oppose what people think about bloggers are paid by Nokia. I think the guy from my-symbian gave requisite and apt replies to such allegations.

Come on guys, let's have a dose of reality here:

1) There's no such thing as a perfect product
2) If you don't like a product then don't buy it
3) If you've bought a product and you think it's unacceptable then complain to the supplier

And yes, the Nokia E90 is expensive enough that you'd hope quality was high enough so as to make returns unnecessary. It seems not - so far - although it's still very early days for the E90 as a product. Its life span will be of the order of 2 or 3 years and we're still in month 2.

Steve

@mr.orlowksi,

how can you possibly call an article that points to many defects and problems that need improvement "fanboy"? Yes, it does also discuss upsides and potential solutions, and that's what a professional journalists article would ideally do.

One could equally easily call your professional journalist articles "hate mail". Not that I would ever do that of course.

Unregistered wrote:
I think not. I am a fan of Nokia Phones and i believe they can do better. So if Mr. Steve has some direct contact with nokia, please relay this to them.

Therein lies the rub... if someone like Steve were really to tell Nokia that such and such was unacceptable (like, dunno, the scandalously short support life of their S60 phones, the mess that is the E65), they'd risk being cut off from the free stuff gravy train.

And who'd want that? That's why I really give more weight to Andrew--theReg than what I read here, simply because Andrew isn't on the gravy train (as far as I know) and calls things as they are. Is he a bit over the top at times? Sure. Are Nokia devices really that bad? No, but they're not a shadow of what they used to be. Does someone need to say it? Yes, absolutely.

My-Symbian.com wrote:
Saying that I have to always have the last word only means that you don't know my forums too much. If you check, there are dozens of threads on my forums complaining about the E90 and for two or so months I haven't even posted a single message in any of them because I decided it's not worth it. Simply because some people are "waterproof" for any arguments and alergic to contrary opinions, and talking with them only incites completely unproductive flame wars. Are you one of them?

* Ending with "Are you one of them?" is just an incitation to get higher in your conflict : stop being so provoking and maybe we'll have a real constructive debate.

Unregistered wrote:Who brings "unproductive flame of wars" in a simple discussion about a phone ?!
Don't be so agressive in your responses, don't always feel personally attacked ! Don't turn other's sentences into weapons ! We are not in My-Symbian here...
I am afraid "you are one of them", alergic to contrary opinions, and I decided to stop answering : it's not worth it .

I must agree. I stopped visiting My-Symbian because of the over-bearing, over-protective attitude of its owner...

The one thing we have learnt in this thread is that Steve can't spell 'defence', and, worse than this, is completely unrepentant of the fact.

Several annoying problems with E90 -

1. Why do Nokia think they can release a new phone in 2007 with such a dreadful shutter release button? It is totally hit or miss if it is going to work or not to the extent I still (most of the time) use my N95. Just read it is a firmware issue - surely they noticed it BEFORE release??!!! Are they mad?!

2. The keyboard is dreadful. The keys are too hard and too close together. Try using a Blackberry 8300 to see how it should be done. I replaced mine with the E90 - I have barely used it for quick reference and reply to email because of its cumbersome operation.

3. Why does the signal sensitivity decrease when the clam is opened? More often or not the signal when weak actually drops the connection!

4. Why is the secondary display so low in brightness?

5. Why do the top row of keys on the main keyboard constantly mark the screen?

6. Why is the navigation button on the main keyboard so poor? The one on the front is far better, the track-ball style found on various phone-PDA's (including the Blackberry 8300) eats it for breakfast.

7. On several occassions the mic audio completely disappears. Again I understand this is a known problem.

This is what I listed when I first received the E90 on the 8th of August 07:

Just received and played with E90, SIM free from Mobile Fun (mobilefun.co.uk, good bunch of guys)

First impressions

Bad Points:

1. Dreadful camera button. It is worse than useless in fact I would say that it is actually faulty in design. It seems to take a shot at random as there is no precise feel to it. Really very very bad.

2. Disappointed that the screen is quite dimly lit (both of them, in particular the second screen). Yes they are both trans-reflective but not a patch on the N95.

3. The navigation button on mine doesn't have a positive feel in the down position on the main keyboard. Other positions are fine. Not sure why they made the 5 way rocker button smaller on the main keypad. The front facing one is very much easier to use with the center enter button recessed.

4. Pity the secondary screen is as small as it is. Why could they have not made it the same as the N95? The E90 body is much wider so could have easily accommodated it. Because of this it truncates far too much info to the user. And before you say it, why should you have to open the clam up for a bigger view?

5. Accessing the camera is a joke and slow is not the word, saving pictures is slower than a digital camera of 10+ years ago.

6. Why an earth have they reverted to a 2.5mm audio socket?

7. Main keyboard very fiddly and slow to move around in comparison to say a Blackberry Curve (8300). The Curve uses round buttons that are far smaller and much faster to use (and more positive in feel). In addition maybe Nokia should also incorporate the trackball of the Curve and do away with their multi-way offering altogether.

8. Not sure if it is just mine but the phone is nowhere near as sensitive as the N95 or Sony K800i or Blackberry 8300 parked in the same position. (On Orange) That is worrying.

Good Points:

1. Superbly made, feels very tactile and a joy to hold and look at, even if it is the brown one, (sorry "mocha"😉 as I really wanted a red one. Sad I know.

2. Audio is stunning from normal received cell calls to audio music tracks.

3. Battery life seems very good

4. Very easy to set up - just plugged into the PC that has the latest N95 software on it, recognised the E-90 and sync'd straight away, couldn't be easier. Setting up retrieval of email simple, again identical to N95.

5. Works in the same way as N95 so didn't have to learn a whole new set of menu's.

Summary;

I wanted the E90 to replace my N95 and Blackberry 8300, all in one package. At this time and after only a few hours of playing with it I am not convinced at all. Which is a pain because I was so looking forward to getting my hands on this new piece of kit. Wish I hadn't sent my Blackberry back now...! Maybe some firmware upgrades will sort a few of the niggles out but that won't change primary screen size, terrible camera and (indifferent) keyboard buttons out.

Finally,

I think the E90 Communicator Team should employ more of the N95 engineers, they could have made this a world beating phone (albeit in smaller numbers) like the N95 has become in such a short period of time.

Will I be sending it back? Not just yet but very probably, at £535 plus VAT it ain't cheap....

In summary, I will wait another month and return it to Nokia I hope for a replacement., with I trust at least some of the above addressed.

Martin Lynch mlands.co.uk